Springfield Armory Museum - Collection Record Springfield Armory Museum - Collection Record Send us your own about this object. Title: PISTOL, SEMI-AUTOMATIC - SAVAGE PISTOL MODEL 1907.45 SN# 19 Maker/Manufacturer: SAVAGE ARMS Date of Manufacture: 1907 Eminent Figure: Catalog Number: SPAR 1640 Measurements: OL: 23.1CM 9 1/8' BL: 13.3CM 5 1/4' Object Description: SAVAGE PISTOL MODEL 1907.45ACP SN# 19 Manufactured by Savage Arms Co., Utica, N.Y. - Modified Model 1907 Savage semi-automatic pistol.

Blued finish, two-piece, checkered wood grips. Safety lever on left side. This is one of 288 recoil-operated, semi-automatic, pistols with 8-round box magazine submitted by Savage for 1907 trials. Fitted with device for measuring movement of slide. It was determined that 'breech slide does recoil about 1/10 of an inch before the bullet leaves the muzzle.' Left grip cracked and one screw on left grip a replacement. Markings: Slide: MANUFACTURED BY SAVAGE ARMS CO./UTICA, N.Y.

19 appears at the rear of the slide and underside of the slide. Army #1640 - 'Army Model. Fitted with a device to ascertain whether or not the breech slide is moved to the rear before the bullet leaves the muzzle. Breech slide does recoil about 1/10 of an before the bullet leaves the muzzle.' Notes: Letter from Cpt. Stewart, Ordnance Dept., to Inspector of Ordnance, Colt's Patent Fire Arms Mfg.

Co., dated 9 March 1910. 'Sir: - I am instructed by the Chief of Ordnance to inform you that it is the understanding of this office that the Colt's Patent Fire Arms Manufacturing Company made a test of a Savage automatic pistol, caliber.45, to determine whether the barrel was positively locked to the slide when the bullet left the bore. It is desired that a full description of the experiments made to procure this information be obtained, if possible, and report forwarded to this office. A report in detail is requested, as this Department desires to make the same experiments.'

.32 Caliber Savage Pistol. Savage & Stevens Arms, Collector's History, by Jay Kimmel. Our database contains values of serial numbers through 259472 which ended the year 1926. Dates should be considered approximate. Enter the serial number of your.32 Caliber Savage Pistol in the box below:. Very nice sharps new model 1859 rifle id’d to 151st new york soldier who served as a brigade sharpshooter - wonderful mounted silver plaque on stock attesting to id.

Letter from LTC John T. Thompson to War Department, Chief of Ordnance, dated 6 August 1910. Respectfully returned to the Commanding Officer of the Springfield Armory, with instructions to place the pistol referred to in the preceding endorsement hereon, in the museum at the Springfield Armory.' 'Colts.45 nosed out this unique autoloader by the slimmest of margins during the U.S. Army's 1907 pistol tryouts. The Savage is the brainchild of Elbert H.

Searle* of Philadelphia, a pioneer in automatic weapons design. Searle negotiated an arrangement with the young Savage Arms Co. To produce and market his creations. Since the patent for the Savage pistol was issued in November 1905, it is quite remarkable that the company could complete the prototypes necessary for the Army trials by early 1907. As an indication of the condition of this small and struggling company, when the Army subsequently ordered the 200 Service Test guns, Savage Arms almost had to refuse the contract due to lack of equipment and finances necessary to complete the order on time.

The Army stood ready to acquire test guns from Luger if Savage failed to produce. Somehow, Savage was able to overcome the difficulties, and the 200 pistols were delivered on schedule. The total number manufactured was approximately 300, about 10 of which were un-numbered prototypes. The rest were serialed number from 1 to 290.

The Service Test pistol loaned to Guns & Ammo for this article is numbered near the middle of the series and very likely saw action with the Eleventh Cavalry. The original Army trials pistols differed in several particulars from the Service Test pieces. The trials pistols had thick, checkered metal grip plates, no grip safety, right side ejection port, and a very prominent front sight, to mention a few of the design features. The Army requested that the Service Test pistols had thinner wooden stocks to cut down the overall size of the pistol grip. They also wanted the ejection port on top, a grip safety, and the front sight moved back a bit and pinned to the slide. A loaded-chamber indicator was thought to be desirable, along with a modified magazine release lever.

Colt was asked to make some changes in their design so that the two competing pistols would be as similar as possible in general details. The original trials Savage, with only 34 parts, had the least number of components of any of the pistols that The Savage is supposed to be a locked-breech design that depends on some five degrees of right-hand barrel rotation during initial recoil of the slide to achieve a totally unlocked condition.

In actual practice, the slide is unlocked long before the bullet leaves the barrel, so the action at best can be called only a retarded blow-black type. Having been unlocked while the barrel pressure is quite high, the slide comes back with considerable force and velocity, stopping with a noticeable jolt that gave the Savage a reputation for having a much stronger recoil 'kick' than the Colt. The Savage is slightly larger than Colt Model 1911. The barrel is some 1/4-inch longer, and the slide extends farther back over the shooting hand. Overall height of the two pistols is practically the same, but the grip of the Savage is more nearly vertical. (The straight grip contributes to the stronger 'kick' of the Savage.) The Savage is not quite as muzzle-heavy at the Colt. The Savage is striker-fired, the 'hammer' being in fact a cocking lever that is hinged to the firing pin.

The 'burr' type cocking lever is the key to field stripping the Savage.45. The stripping procedure is to remove the magazine first, of course, and see that the chamber is empty.

Next, the slide is forced all the way to the rear of its normal travel, and the safety is applied, which will hold the slide in the fully open position. While squeezing the cocking piece and the breech plug between thumb and forefinger, turn the breech plug 1/4 turn to the right. Pull the breech plug to the rear and remove. The rear sight is on the end of the extractor spring and protrudes upward through a slot in the slide. Push down on the rear sight and remove sight/extractor piece from slide. Release the safety while holding back on the trigger. The slide will now come forward and off the frame.

The barrel and recoil sping are now free also. The trigger unit may be lifted out of the frame. The pistol is at this time dismantled as far as is necessary for routine cleaning and lubrication. The ease of disassembly was one of the main reasons for the selection of the Savage for Service Test. The Savage may be taken down much more quickly and easily than the Colt Model 1911. The Savage has a number of interesting features that could of unique value in a military pistol. The sights are very low, so that when the cocking lever is in the forward, or fired, position, the sights cannot be seen.

This could be a life-saving reminder to cock the pistol before attempting to fire it. An extension of the extractor protrudes through a slot at the rear of the ejection port and rises noticeably above the surface of the slide when a cartridge is in the chamber, serving as both a visual and tactile loaded chamber indicator. Another nice element of dubious value is a retractable lanyard loop that folds up into the magazine well when it is not needed. Probably nothing ever conceived by man is perfect, and the Savage.45 is no exception. One of its worst features is the location of the cocking piece. It is partially shrouded and far to the rear of the pistol. It is totally impossible for anyone lacking the finger structure of an orangutan to cock the Savage with one hand.

The butt shape of the cocking piece does not make it possible to cock the pistol by pushing the cocking piece against a boot, saddle, or other convenient object, however, so all is not completely lost. A definite weak point in the Savage design is the grip safety mechanism. A rather thin steel bar that moves verticato block the sear was broken on our sample gun, so that it would fire without operating the grip safety.

Making the grip safety bar stronger would be a very easy thing to do and, if the Savage had been selected for service use, would undoubtedly have been done on production models. Whether the problem of one-handed cocking ever could have been solved is another question. There doesn't seem to be any practical way to do it, so this remains a major drawback to an otherwise good design.

A potentially serious problem exists with all Savage autos. With a loaded round in the chamber, and the cocking lever in the forward (or fired) position, the tip of the firing pin rests against the primer. It is true that the hinge-pin connecting the cocking lever and the firing pin rides in an elongated hole, so that any blow to the cocking piece is transferred to the slide, and not to the firing pin. At the same time, however, the full tension of the firing pin spring is pushing the firing pin forward. It is conceivable that dropping the pistol on a hard surface could discharge it, although Savage always maintained tha this sort of accident could not occur. Even though there was never a public statement to that effect (as far as we know), it is said that this was one of the reasons for the Army's rejection of the Savage.45 After the Service Test period was over, and the Colt had been selected as the official service pistol, the Army declared the Savage pistols in its inventory to be surplus, and they were sold back to Savage. The exact number of pistols involved in this deal is unknown, or least the information has never been made public.

It seems almost certain knowning the Army, that quite a few were 'lost' in the field. Savage refinished those of the surplus guns that required it and, together with the ones remaining in their possession, sold them to civilian buyers.

No one can be certain as to how many of the Savage.45s are still in existence, but chances are that no more than half of them have survived to the present day. Savage began production of a.32 caliber pocket pistol based on the same general principles as the Army Service Test Guns sometime in 1908. The pocket pistols, in at least three production models and some 15 variations, were made and sold over the next 20 years.

Many of these were made in caliber.380 as well as.32 ACP. Several experimental and special models, including some in.25 ACP, were also produced during this time.

The total number of Savage pocket autos manufactured was somewhere in the neighborhood of 275,000 - second only to Colt in this country. The reasons for the demise of Savage pistols are hard to understand, for their quality remained excellent to the very end. Many of these fine little guns are still in daily use all over the world, which says about all one can say concerning their performance and durability. It is too bad that Savage never saw fit to market civilian versions of their big-bore pistol. The Savage.45 Army model is such an all-around good pistol, in spite of the design deficiencies mentioned, that one can only wonder about the selection process that made the Colt Model 1911 our standard military pistol.

What if Savage had possessed the money and influence of Colt? Would our soldiers be using a Model 1911 Savage today? Such questions are pointless, of course, since Savage lost the competition - and the old faithful Colt really isn't a bad choice after all.' Glaze, GUNS & AMMO, October, 1978. 'After replacing its excellent, but aging.45 cal. Colt Single Action Army revolver with a 'more modern'.38 cal. Model during the Philippine Insurrection (1899-1910), the U.S.

Military learned a painful lesson in handgun stEven before the trouble in the Philippines was over, the search for a new.45 cal. Pistol was underway, and, five years later, Colt had its Model 1905 pistol on the market chambered for the.45 ACP cartridge designed for the gun by Winchester. Although the great Frankfort Arsenal had designed a similar cartridge, it was the Winchester round that prevailed. As early as 1904 the Ordnance Department had solicited.45 cal. Semi-automatic pistols for testing.

Although Colt eventually won, there was no guarantee early on, and five other pistol designs were initially submitted. These included guns by Bergmann, Knoble, White-Merrill, Luger and Savage. While the background of each test pistol is a story in itself, it is the Savage entry that is the subject here, and one Special Savage pistol in particular. Having been formed by Arthur J.

Savage in 1894, the Savage Arms Company was looking for ways to expand its product line by the turn of the century. In 1904, Savage Arms was approached by Elbert H. Searle, of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and his financial partner, William D. Condit of Des Moines, Iowa, about a new semi-automatic pistol Searle had invented.

Savage agreed to develop the design with Searle working at the plant in Utica, New York. When the military trials were announced, Searle designed a sample pistol in.45 ACP. Unique in many ways, the Savage/Searle pistol was a single-action that used a hammer-like cocking piece linked directly to the firing pin. A conventional safety lever on the left side pivoted to allow the gun to fire, and it also served to lock the slide to the rear to permit removal of the fixed breechbolt group from the slide during field stripping. The modular breechbolt contained the firing pin/cocking piece, the extractor and its spring, and the mainspring.

Pivoting within the frame, the trigger was connected to a toggle-like sear that acted on it counterpart in the breechbolt group. An integral part of the rear sight, the one-piece extractor rode inside the top of the slide and - in later versions - included a loaded chamber indicator. An interesting ambidextrous magazine release was located at the center of the pistol's front strap. Much like that later used in S&W.22 cal. Pistols, depressing the lever release the ring or little finger allowed the Savage's semi-staggered, eight-shot magazine to be removed. An unobtrusive slide release lever was on the right side of the frame behind the trigger. Modern for its time in several respects, Searle's pistol had only 34 parts and used no flat springs or screws, its checkered sheet-metal stock being held on by friction.

No other buttons or levers are found on the initial prototype, except for a pivoting lanyard ring that rotates up into the magazine well when not in use. Most unusual about Searle's pistol design was its rotating barrel. Although Searle described it as a locked breech, such was not at all the case, and the gun operates on the principle of delayed (rather than retarded) blowback. Running in an angular channel inside the top of the slide, a lug atop the barrel rotates some five degrees right to free the slide from the barrel and allows it to move to the rear. Having a right hand twist, the rifling, being effected by the bullet's inertia as it speeds down the barrel helps delay the rotation, preventing the slide form opening until the bullet leaves the barrel. While the concept may be somewhat valid in theory, in practice it proved academic at best, and tests later proved that of the Savage pistol opened just before the bullet had exited. After the Ordnance Department's initial test on January 1, 1907, during which 913 rounds were fired through the Savage pistol, the Ordnance Board found that, despite deficiencies, the design had sufficient merit to warrant testing with some changes.

Among these were the addition of a loaded chamber indicator, wooden grip panels and an automatic (grip) safety. On May 18, 1907, the Ordnance Department requested 200 improved Savage.45 cal. Pistols to complete arm three After the first 65 pistols were inspected and test fired at Springfield Armory by Major Morton, he listed numerous mechanical problems and malfunctions resulting in Savage requesting that the guns be returned for repair. All 200 pistols were returned to Savage during December 1908 and January 1909. Five pistols were lost in shipment and were never recovered.

Their serial numbers are unknown. In his superb book, U.S. MILITARY AUTOMATIC PISTOLS, 1894-1920, Edward Scott Meadows' extensive chapter on the Savage Military Trials pistols, outlines in great detail all of the military's reports on the problems with these pistols.

It is a must for all students of small arms, and particularly U.S. Military pistol development at the turn of the century.

With repairs finally completed on the remaining 195 Savage pistols, the guns were returned to Springfield Armory on March 18, 1909. A report from that date indicates that, in accordance with instructions from the Chief of Ordnance, the pistols were issued as follows: Troop I, 3rd Cavalry, Fort Wingate, New Mexico, 64 pistols; Troop G, 6th Cavalry, Fort Des Moines, Iowa, 64 pistols; Troop G, 11th Cavalry, Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia, 64 pistols; School of Musketry, The Presidio of California, 2 pistols; and Chief of Ordnance, Washington, D.C., 1 pistol. The serial numbers of all the pistols listed above and the units to which they were issued are not all recorded, but some are, including 61 of those issued to Troop I, 3rd Cavalry.

In addition, Savage Model 1907 pistol No. 111 was the inspection sample issued to the Ordnance Department.

What in most interesting is that initial Ordnance Department records report that the School of Musketry originally received Savage 1907 pistols serial numbers 1, 2, and 7, or three pistols and not two as listed in the report of March 18, 1909. Furthermore, throughout all the subsequent reports, correspondence, repairs and modifications to the guns, Nos. 2 and 7 are referenced to the School of Musketry, but there is no mention of pistol No. Was Savage 1907 pistol, serial No. 1 one of the five pistols that were lost in shipment? The Savages were issued with 209 special U.S.

Cavalry leather flap holsters by Rock Island Arsenal, of which only three specimens have surfaced. Throughout the remainder of 1909 and 1910, more problems plagued the Savages.

By August 1909, all pistols had again been returned to the factory for more repairs and to have the words, 'SAFE' and 'FIRE,' stamped on the frame near the thumb safety. In 1910, when the pistols were again returned to Savage for repairs, 72 were lost of stolen in transit with Savage replacing the pistols with new ones, all with 'SAFE' and 'FIRE' already stamped on the frame. On February 23, 1910, Savage notified the Chief of Ordnance of a new improved pistol, or more specifically, major modifications to the Model 1907. The modifications included a heavier slide, a smaller rear sight and ejector, a redesigned magazine and thicker, smooth walnut stocks. A total of eight Model 1907 pistols were reported modified by Savage, serial Nos. 5, 14, 15, 27, 90, 114, 116 and 170.

This variant has come to be known as the Savage Model 1910. During more military tests, the Model 1910 also proved unsatisfactory, resulting in Savage making one final attempt to resolve the problem.

On March 15, 1911, it announced a completely new version of Searle's design now referred to as the Savage Model 1911. Four samples of the Model 1911 were made with serial nos.

However, during one final test, the Savage lost to the new Colt Model of 1911 which was selected by the military. At the end of the program, 185 Savage 1907s remained in the military's inventory.

Four of the Recently discovered in an estate in Ohio was U.S. Military Trials Savage.45 ACP pistol serial No.

The gun remains in close to new condition and, although it cannot talk, it continues to surrender pieces of an interesting story even though Savage Arms has no record of what happened to it. After more than a half-century, Savage ACP pistol No. 1 first surfaced in the 1970s. Although a photograph of the gun was circulated, the few who examined it doubted what they saw, for the pistol in the picture had the Model 1910 modifications. Since no serial number was ever stamped on the exterior of these pistols, the gun remained in question, but no longer.

While Savage.45 ACP pistol No. 1 began life as a Model 1907, it is now indeed a Model 1910, obviously having been modified by Savage along with the other eight pistols in that year.

Just as certain is that pistol No. 1 either remained at Savage or was retained by the factory upon its return, and could thus be one of the five pistols reported 'lost' in the shipments of 1908/1909. The evidence supporting this deduction is that pistol No. 1 retains 96% of its original deep fire blue on frame and slide and color case-hardened trigger, cocking piece and other parts. In addition, not only does the top of the slide retain its original Savage nomenclature, but there are no 'SAFE/FIRE' markings on the frame such as was done to all the pistols when they were returned in 1909.

Like several other of the (now 9) known 1910 Savage.45 ACP pistols, No. 1 has checkered, rather than smooth walnut stocks.

It also has magazine no. 27, the serial number of one of the eight other Model 1910 Savages. Perhaps the most diagnostic evidence that perhaps No. 1 remained at Savage throughout the trials as a test bed pistol is its totally unique ejection port. Searle's top and forward ejection design caused the case to hit the sharp forward edge of the port, and could have contributed to ejection failures.

The forward edge of the ejection port on the improved 1910 slide of pistol No. 1 has a ramp machined in what appears to be an attempt to soften or divert the blow of the empty case. No other Savage.45 pistol has this modification. After surfacing for the second time in nearly a century, Savage Model 1907/1910.45 ACP pistol No. 1 is in the collection of its new owner. However, this time, like the coming of a comet, it revealed unknown secrets.' - Gary Paul Johnston, AMERICAN RIFLEMAN, March 1998.

'Savage.45 caliber pistol serial number 19 was modified for testing to determine whether the pistol was positively-locked when the bullet left the muzzle. This pistol was placed in the Springfield Armory Museum by direction of the Chief of Ordnance on August 6, 1910.The magazines, which were manufactured for Savage by the Adriance Machine Works of Brooklyn, New York, were one of the primary problems with the Savage pistol.' - Meadows Army# 1818 - According to Army records, this weapon, a M1905 Savage, was transferred to the Chief of Military History on 24 April 1957. See, Clawson pg. References: Clawson, Charles. COLT.45 SERVICE PISTOLS. Flayderman, Norm.

FLAYDERMAN'S GUIDE TO ANTIQUE AMERICAN FIREARMS.AND THEIR VALUES. Krause Publications. Meadows, Edward Scott. MILITARY AUTOMATIC PISTOLS 1894-1920. Richard Ellis Publications, Inc. * As this letter indicates, Mr. Searle was at one time employed by the Springfield Armory.

Letter addressed to Colonel B.F. Jones, General Supt.

Of Transportation, Army Building, 39 Whitehall St., N.Y., from Springfield Armory, dated 2 February 1899. 'Sir, - In compliance with instructions of the Chief Of Ordnan Searching provided.

1917 First impressions first. All my shooting life I’ve been warned of and suffered from ‘hammer bite’ while shooting a Government Model Colt or any of the copies or clones thereof. I’ve been ‘bitten’ by a Beretta 418 pistol, when the slide rails nicked the web of my shooting hand. I even heard ‘Beretta bite’ mentioned on a television program – the same day, in fact. I’ve never heard of “Savage bite’ – but it occurs as well! Not serious, but enough to get one’s attention, the slide rails again dug into the web of my shooting hand enough to draw blood.

Photo of wound incurred included. The Savage autopistol is one of those near genius designs. It is a retarded blowback action, claimed in early advertising to be ‘locked’ at the moment of firing. The short version is, the barrel must be rotated a few degrees in order for the slide to move in recoil. The bullet travelling down the barrel, being spun by the rifling in the barrel is rotating the same direction the barrel must turn, imparting a radial momentum preventing rotational movement of the barrel.

So until the bullet leaves the bore, the barrel cannot turn to unlock the slide. Or so the advertising says. The system worked well enough to allow a pistol chambered in.45 ACP to function properly and pass the first set of trials for the ‘new’ Army pistol – which resulted in the adoption of the M1911, designed by John Browning and built by Colt Firearms (and others). Savage had a chance to be the M1911 pistol, but didn’t want to commit the money and machinery to build more pistols for testing. The series of pistols known as the Savage autoloading pistols began in 1907, utilizing a patent granted in 1905. It was designed by a gentleman named Elbert Searle, who was not at the time part of the Savage Firearms Company.

Jerry Lee Lewis All Killer No Filler Rarity here. It’s a somewhat complicated story and not in the scope of this report, so I refer the reader so interested to the book Savage Pistols, by Bailey Brower, Jr. The first pistol was called the model 1907. There was a design revision which concealed the manually controllable striker called the model 1915 and finally the model 1917, which brought back an exposed ‘hammer’ attached to the striker.

The pistol being the subject of this report is a model 1917. The biggest single identifier of the model 1917 is the near triangular grip profile. I must say the grip is very comfortable. One feels a grip which affords ‘total control’ over the handling and recoil of the pistol. (Just for comparison, my hands are just big enough to fully grip a Colt Government Model pistol. I can shoot a Government Model one-handed and feel in control of the pistol.

I feel my grip is rather ‘incomplete’ shooting most double stack magazine pistols. Including Glocks. Don’t ask.) This particular pistol found its way into my life and collection in a gun show in Orlando, Florida. It was just sitting there on a table with a modest price tag. It is in fairly good shape, not perfect, not in box, but in fair finish, a shootable bore – some dark in the grooves – and complete. The grips are very sharp in the fine detail; one can read the ‘trade mark’ legend in the now politically incorrect American indigenous native logo. Of note, the grips are not broken or cracked.

Arya 2 Hindi Dubbed Video Songs Free Download. There is some bluing loss and a bit of ‘freckling’ on the top of the slide. Most of the frame is quite well preserved and there are no gross bumps, bruises or dings, save one bit of rub wear on the right side of the slide near the muzzle; not normal holster wear.

It came with one magazine which if anything, is a bit more worn than the pistol proper. One never knows, but I conjecture the original was lost and replaced. With a box of my standard Prvi Partizan ammunition, chronograph and a B27 target, off to the range. In spite of the over eight pound trigger pull, it shoots fairly well. The trigger pull is about 8.25 pounds, according to my trigger gauge. I noted the trigger travels about 1/8th inch of slack, then about 1/16th inch to release the sear; over travel is minimal. Sadly, the sear is unreliable and will be explained later.

As with all pistols of this era, the sights are rather small and unobtrusive. As is the norm with this class of pistol, the sights are fixed and in the case of the Savage, are milled from the same stock as the slide. One can do some minor adjustments for windage by carefully filing out the rear notch but I’m not going to do that.

The three yard group was fired at the upper “8” in the scoring rings and is encouragingly tight and on target. The seven yard group was fired at the lower “8” in the scoring rings. This grouping is also encouragingly tight, and just a bit removed to the left; not enough to cause concern. The fifteen yard group was fired at the “X” and is all within the “10” ring. Sufficient for self-defense use, I should say. This group shows a bit of leftward incline, but is still sufficiently centered. The five shot group fired from twenty-five yards is nicely contained on the head of the target.

Frankly, I was just a bit surprised it grouped as well as it did. To be fair, this was fired (as all other groups) outside in broad daylight. I could find the sights and line them up properly. Of all criticisms of this pistol, accuracy is not a concern.

The ‘point shoulder’ group was fired at ten yards. There were only two shots fired, both off to the left and low – no doubt a result of my clutching the pistol as the shots were delivered. Still on the target. This brings up a troubling development. While shooting the previous groups, I noted the pistol would end on occasion with the hammer down on the empty chamber following firing the last round in the magazine. When I charged the chamber for the last string of ‘point shoulder’ shooting, the pistol discharged when I let the slide go forward. For some reason, the sear is not consistently engaging.

Upon inspection, I found the hammer to follow when the slide was dropped on an empty chamber. So I’m looking into the matter and not shooting this pistol further. Happily, I had already fired the five shots over the chronograph – without incident, I add. Chronograph results of five shots gave me an average velocity of 755 feet per second.

According to Savage advertising of the era, the ‘locked breech’ action gives all the power available from the cartridge. It is not notably ‘faster’ – more efficient – than other.32 ACP pistols I have examined. So much for advertising claims. Other than the mechanical deficiency noted regarding the sear, this pistol is a well built and useful pocket pistol. The safety mechanism (thumb operated analogous to the Colt type) is positive and can be easily applied and released. Accuracy is quite good, in spite of small fixed sights and a heavy trigger.

Were the sear reliable – I’m sure they normally are – and I had more confidence in the power of the cartridge – which I do not – this would be an excellent carry pistol. It does pretty much what is needed and without extraneous frills and doodads. Honeywell, welcome. I remember “J. Higgins” and “Ted Williams” sporting goods being sold at Sears, once upon a long ago. I must confess, I do not remember the Allstate 50cc motorcycle. I do not recall any comic books advertising firearms by mail.

(I read DC comics, Superman and Batman, almost exclusively. They were in NYC as I recall and didn’t hold with guns as I recall.) I saw them in the gun magazines and ‘sporting’ magazines of the time – pre 1968. Garand (pronounced ‘GER-and’ or ‘GER-und’ by the designer) were going for $69.99 each, plus shipping. Within 15 years, they were costing ten times as much. I also remember Century Arms advertising Luger pistols for around $30.00; a few dollars more for ‘select’ grade.

Lugers that are put together from odd bits are going for $1000.00 at a minimum. Yes, Western Auto used to sell ‘sporting goods’, including firearms and ammunition. I used to have a box of Western Auto brand.22 ammunition; sold it to a collector, as I recall. I think I grew up with some old hardware store guns, brand names like “Revelation”. And i can recall a more modern hardware+furniture+appliance store that also sold some firearms including handguns. Used to look at them as a kid.

The store is still around, moved into a newer building. But i have never gone in to see if they stuck with their guns into the new millennium. More to the point, I recently picked up one of these 1917 32 caliber pistols.

According to a serial number lookup I found, this one in the 240xxx range was made in 1920. It does not have the “Savage model 1917” markings on the frame which seems to mean “early production”: Also the gun store guy did not know what model to write down on the paperwork! Frankly they didn’t know what kind of money this gun COULD have sold for in the right market either 🙂 The magazine holds the full 10 rounds and is in really good cosmetic shape.

The gun is around 75% to 80% I guess. Just some wear, no abuse. Grips not cracked. Color case hardened trigger.

The only thing left ladies & gents is to see whether it still fires 10 shots quick. Matt, nice to hear from you. Sadly, many of the old hardware stores went out of the gun business following the ‘Gun Control Act of 1968’ (GCA68). That was the second federal law to end the problem of gun violence; the first being the ‘National Firearms Act of 1934’ to end the problem of machineguns. GCA68 began the requirement for anyone in the business of selling guns to obtain a ‘Federal Firearms License’ (FFL) in order to sell guns commercially. When that happened, many of the smaller hardware stores were pushed out of the gun business due to overhead.

Then some states like California, New Jersey, Massachusetts and New York added more restrictions. Congratulations on your Savage.

The 240XXX serial number range – according to Savage Pistols by Bailey Brower, Jr, the series in which yours was made ran from 1920 to 1921 and I would guess probably 1921. However, this was the first production run of the 1917 pistol. Your pistol should have the larger, triangular grip frame and grips, the ‘spur’ type cocking lever instead of the ‘rowel’ type, and the 28 fine cocking serrations on the slide.

You are correct in they did not carry the “Savage 1917 Model” marking on the frame. I’ve shot all three of my Savages. All fired without problem except one had a worn sear; it would sometimes fire two in a row or fire the first round when inserting a full magazine and releasing the slide. You might want to try the first few shots with one round only in the magazine and make sure the hammer does not follow. They are fun guns. I very much like the way they feel in the hand and shoot. Keep in touch and tell me how it works.

Most rounds from the magazine jammed? That has not been a problem with my examples. You did clean the beast completely? Wipe out all the old somewhat solidified oil or grease? The other possibility is the recoil spring is getting ‘soft’. You might try just pulling the recoil spring to stretch it a bit and see if that (temporarily) fixes the problem. If you want to know about Savage pistols, the book is worth having.

If I recall correctly, I got mine from Amazon.com (no financial connections) and it was fairly reasonable for books of this type. In the same manner as interesting firearms, one cannot have too many good books. Replacement springs are available from a couple of sources, the main ones being “Gun Parts Co” (formerly Numrich Arms) and “Jack First Co”. Both have websites. There are several other old gun parts places as well; an internet search will turn them up for you. Cleaning the beast was first priority, because it was put away dirty & sold the same way. No one at the shop could say when it might have been fired last or where it came from, but the fouling on the gun seemed recent.

The old Savage 1917 owners manual from vintagepistols.com says to use a light oil and never grease this pistol, but since joining the M1 Garand Collector’s Association I’ve been using grease on semi-autos. It just seems logical to use lubricant that stays in place wherever 2 metal pieces slide across each other, So, sparingly, we lubricated the slide rails, barrel rotating lug, and other visibly worn points of metal-on metal-contact with the TW25 goo that the SIG-Sauer people include with their pistols nowadays. The magazine is in rougher shape than first realized. The catch holes in the front are damaged and the rough edges inside are causing friction with the spring. The spring itself is suspect, and the base plate is slightly pulled away. I have not found good reference photos of the original magazines (the book might come in handy here) but this one seems to be of low quality or damaged by a previous owner. 380 ACP rounds fit the magazine and the 32 caliber rounds fall out if the mag is dropped, so I wonder if it’s even correct for this gun.

I do not know if the magazines for the 380 version of the pistol have different dimensions that would make this impossible or not. Its just a thought that crossed my mind. Regardless, a new magazine should be on the way soon. Sounds like the magazine is problematic.

The.32 magazine and the.380 magazine are the same basic body – they have to be as the frames for the two version are the same. The opening and lips are different, of course to properly hold the next cartridge in place and to release that cartridge to the slide at the proper time. Sounds like you have the problem in hand. Oil – light grease? Yeah, I agree. Garands need grease on certain junctures and I’ve always liked a light grease on the slide-frame joints; but find that Break Free CLP does a very good job and doesn’t migrate. Too much oil or grease can pick up dust or pocket lint.

In really cold weather (right now it is in the low 30s or high 20s in Nebraska here) grease can stiffen up and prevent free movement. Always something, huh? Let me know how the new magazine works. I picked up a Savage.32 (serial # indicates a 1914 production date) for under thirty dollars in 1968, and after fam-firing it 3 years in a row, on the fourth outing it fired off an entire clip, full-auto. I presumed the sear broke and set it aside. With more time available these days, I broke it out with the intention of finding the broken part.

Your report of sear failure gave me pause to consider pushing a few more rounds through it to ascertain if it is a chronic or episodic problem. Do you have any suggestions for finding parts should my little savage need something?

A handgun firing all the rounds in the magazine without pause gives new meaning to the Savage advertising claim of “Ten shots quick!”. (He said with a small chuckle as he wipes a tear from his eye.) Yes, as far as I can tell, the sear seems to get touchy with age, use or crud and does not reliably hold a full cock.

If you are going to do a little testing, I suggest you only load the magazine with one or two rounds, rather than full. The ‘usual suspects’ for finding parts for obsolete guns are Gun Parts Corp () and Jack First Company (). There are a few others which can be found by doing an internet search for ‘obsolete gun parts’. Be warned the sear was changed during the production life of the pistol, not all are the same. A 1914 production date means your pistol should – he said hopefully – have a ‘type 3’ breechblock.

Another problem is replacing the part. I’ve had one of these breechblocks apart and report that while I did get it back together, it requires three hands, a microscopic pin punch and a seven pound hammer. Nor am I aware of any gunsmiths who are familiar with this pistol type. Sigh Does your pistol have a lanyard ring? If so, it will be a wire type loop at the heel of the grip frame; inserted into a hole running through the frame.

If so, your pistol is one of the “Military Contract” pistols sold to either France (most likely) or Portugal (less likely). In any event, the chamber is milled out for a ‘loaded round indicator’, but most of them are broken. That doesn’t make the gun unsafe to shoot, but it is probably not there at all. I have to ask, what is an odologist?

This not only stumps me, but Merriam-Webster as well. Unless it is one who deals with odometers? We live in an age in which the old bonds of language are no more; “odologist” is a totally made up concept describing one who studies travel routes and modes of surface movement (think odometer). My calling is I find old paths, trails, and roads (www.tradingpath.org).

No lanyard ring present though there is a rectangular gap in the bolt that reveals brass when a round is chambered. I’d forgotten what a tight, little piece it was after having it salted away for so long. The main attraction of firearms for me is precision machining, and this.32 is a real testimonial to good engineering and manufacturing values. Makes me want to own other Savage products.

I’m in the market for a plinkiing.22, and I may limit my search to Savage in appreciation for the production values I’ve seen. Of course, like so many of our mfrs, Savage may have, in the interim, opted for cheap and disposable but I hope not. Thanks for the background on my firearm. Thanks for clearing up the odologist question. It actually sounds both useful and fun. I once identified myself as “Galactic Effectuator”, but I don’t get around as much as I did, once upon a long ago. I heard about the gun show negligent discharge today.

Those things do happen and life goes on; but the media gets more worked up over a single, isolated incident such as this with no one killed and the ‘victims’ only somewhat inconvenienced than for a 27 car pile up on some interstate with several dead and dozens wounded. So much for unbiased. Say, if you do find a gunsmith who is knowledgeable about these pistols, let me know. I really do like the Savage pistols and most of the ‘Art Deco’.32 ACP or 7.65mm pistols of the era. As you say, they were well made, usually well planned and designed and just have a certain flavor of elegance absent from utilitarian, plastic framed tools. (Which may be excellent tools, but lack ‘soul’.) There are a couple more handguns I will discuss here.

Of various calibers. Have been playing with my 1917 some more. I figured out how to disassemble the magazine. We were able to improve the functioning, but the worn out mag will not stay fully seated without a hand held underneath it. Shot about 20 through it today in this way with only the magazine problems. At one point I was clearing a jam and dropped the magazine while kneeling; all 8 or so remaining rounds fell out in a pile around it on the ground. Never seen that happen before.

One round failed to fire even after a second strike. It’s PMC generic FMJ ammo.

I found one other magazine for sale out there online besides the Triple-K, but the manufacturer or capacity is not listed. We inquired about the capacity and got a quick email response, something like:”I dunno, never loaded one up”. So, we will try the Triple-K one. Heard a good word about them at a recent gun show. We have taken some pics The Savage itself Savage started with a full size 45 caliber pistol in the 1911 pistol trial and scaled it down to 380 and 32. Colt tried much the same thing many years later with the Mustang Pocketlite mini 1911.380 ACP. We used to speak of this pistol in the past tense, but it has returned this year after being discontinued previously, possibly because Sig Sauer brought out their own mini 1911 380 called the P238 and it has sold like gangbusters.

Thats the one I have. Flat black metal & rosewood, can’t beat it.

Notice the cool little holster it came with: fits the 1917 very well! That is a nice looking Savage. Triple K seems to be the only game in town for some magazines. They usually work pretty well. If your original magazine is not staying in the pistol, either the magazine catch or the lock hole in the magazine is worn or bent. Just a thought. The little SIG is nice as well; but it is too easy to shoehorn a 9×19 round into a pistol that size.

(Even if the recoil is increased.) That holster seems to fit, but it leaves something out esthetically. I keep thinking about making a ‘period’ type holster for mine, but haven’t quite done it yet. I’ll have to move that project up to the ‘not putting it off so much list.”. Currently have 3 of the Savage.32’s. One is a 1917, currently in a ziploc at my gunsmith awaiting him to replace a part if he can find one.

Another is a 1907 made in 1913(sn#89XXX), the 3rd? I will have to dig out of the safe as it’s been so long since messed with it. The 1907 has been reblued and has a nice custom wood grips. Looks sharp, shoots good enough for EDC. I also have a extra slide, not sure for which model, I will need to dig that up. Hopefully these are two pics of the 1907 Sorry for the blurry pic.

To my knowledge, no other ‘brand’ will fit. Most companies want to sell their own magazines and in many cases, the patent protection is still in force. Not with the Savages, as they quit making-selling these pistols some sixty or seventy years ago. As you have found, there are a couple aftermarket companies still selling magazines for these pistols. The good news is all the Savage.32 ACP pistols will interchange magazines (some very early 1907 models require a slight adaptation to the magazine). The bad news is not many people use this pistols any more so the demand – and production – is rather low.

I would prefer to bear good news, but I fear I cannot. My very best wishes to you. I have 4 of the 1907 Savage’s in.32 ACP and 1 1917 in.380. The first 1907 by mail order in 1961. All I needed back then was a purchase permit from the local sheriff. The latest purchase was the 1917.380 just this week.

Parts are getting harder to find and had to settle for a spur cocking lever for a 1907 (from Numrich Arms) to replace the very worn spur cocking lever on the 1917. I know they are interchangeable as I put a 1917 spur cocking lever on my 1907 back in 1962. I shoot all my firearms and will not own a safe queen. I also consider most pistols to be works of art and the Savage Pocket pistols to be one of the finest examples. I checked the three Savage pistols I have. No magazine safety, nor do I remember reading of one in research. If the striker-cocking lever doodad falls when the trigger is pulled, there cannot be a magazine safety.

So just to make sure I understand what you ask, the cocking lever will not fall with a round in place? But will when the round is removed from the chamber, it will ‘snap’ as usual? If that is true, it sounds like the slide isn’t closing all the way. The disconnector is disconnected. At least it sounds like that. If what I’m saying matches what you’re doing, then I suggest you dismantle the pistol and clean it out thoroughly. Could be crud in the chamber that doesn’t allow the round to seat fully.

Could be crud in the slide or breech-block. And so forth. Can’t hurt to clean it properly anyway.

A silly thought, but make sure nothing is stuck in the chamber or barrel to prevent the round to fully seat in the chamber. (You’ve probably already looked.) If the pistol has a round chambered, the cocking lever falls and the pistol doesn’t fire – the firing pin may be either broken or frozen (crud or rust) in place.

When cleaning the pistol as suggested above, look and see if the firing pin protrudes from the breech block with the cocking lever down. That’s all I’ve got right now. Get back to me with results and we’ll talk about it some more. Thank you for your reply. After reading it did what you suggested. I was also able to fabricate a floor plate myself, and build a magazine from the parts i had. I than took the gun down all the way and cleaned it completely with CLP.

I purchased some snap caps and it worked nice manually. I am confident it will fire properly now. I’ll test it out at the range tomorrow and let you know. Thanks for your input.

95 yrs of crud was the problem I believe, as you suggested. Take care and have a great holiday season. (Also just to clarify the magazine i had was just loose parts and missing the floor plate).

I will start slowly, with one round in the mag, and work my way up. Best regards, Mick.

Had the body, spring and what I’ll call the feed plate that is driven up by the spring. It was the floor plate that was missing that i made and crimped to the body. Took the gun to the range and fired 60 rounds and it was great. At 25 yards the pattern was nice and tight. Only problem is its tough to bring the slide back to chamber a round.

Its alot easier than it was before i gave it a good cleaning, but still tough, and I am not a weakling. Its awkward, and that can lead to accidents. My thought is that perhaps those before me may have stretched the slide return spring, to generate more force to chamber a round and seat the firing mechanism, in lieu of cleaning the gun properly. Do you know where i may be able to purchase a new spring? Mick, I was wondering.

That ‘feed plate’ is normally called the magazine ‘follower’; in some pistols it also has a ‘lug’, ‘leg’, ‘arm’, or ‘doodad’ which pushes up and activates the slide stop. I’m glad the pistol worked properly. They are far more accurate than the urban legends would have it.

Most of mine at 25 yards will deliver ‘minute of schnoz’..32 ACP is not a breath-taking round in terms of power; but in a pinch, one or two delivered to center of face would be most discouraging. To an attacker. As just mentioned in another reply, “Wolff Spring Company” has a website, and is also advertised in the Brownell’s catalog. They have springs for just about everything. Their website is more likely than Brownell’s to have what you want, I would think. Went to the wolff web site, and only was able to locate a 7.65mm recoil spring,so i ordered it. Was less than $10, so if it does not fit or work, no big deal.

In the mean time i have completely disassembled the gun again ( not just a field strip, but completely down to the smallest parts) to insure all are clean and properly assembled. Which was the case.

I than reassembled it without the recoil spring and manually cycled some snap caps thru it and felt no mechanical binding when pulling the slide back. Am i chasing my tail here or is it just the nature of the 1917.32acp to Require so much force to manually pull the slide back? Your thoughts please I have have a strong mechanical back round, and was a munitions specialist in the military when i was young (about 40 yrs ago).

Still just a gear head I recently retired from the private sector, and i am being introduced to this new hobby by my younger brother.so bear with me. Appreciate your input. I’m surprised that the the 1907/1917 380 mags don’t work. From what I’ve read, they should be compatible. What difficulty did you encounter?

I know it’s been a year, but I stumbled across lots of 380 mags when searching for a replacement for my 1917 32ACP. Here’s one that appears to be in stock: I never did find a mag for my 32, but I found Wolff gunsprings through this blog, and they have a replacement spring that might get my existing mag back to firing shape, so I wanted to say thanks to @oldmanmontgomery and the rest of the folks here. The external magazine dimensions are the same for all the Savage pistols – as far as I can determine.

It is possible the magazine lips are wider for the.380 version than for the.32; I cannot say definitely. I know some other manufacturers used the same magazines for both calibers, but all that was a long time ago. The text in that link you provided announced the magazines offered are ‘non-factory’.

My experience has been hit and miss with after market magazines. Some are really excellent and some will not fit into the magazine well. Sorry, but magazines are typically hoarded by those who have them.

I’ve never seen any Savage pistols offered with more than one magazine. Even the vendors at gun shows with ‘odd bits’ never seem to have any Savage magazines without pistols attached. Depending on your area, gun shows might be the best bet – still slim – for finding some orphaned and unloved magazines. Thanks for the kind words. I’m glad any of my efforts have assisted you or anyone else. Some do and some don’t. I know the early Ortgies.32 pistols had magazines which were marked for 7.65 [Browning] (.32 ACP) on one side and 9mm [kurz] (.380 ACP) on the other.

I believe the Savages also had more or less interchangeable magazines, but can’t remember for certain. You might as well try it. The absolute worst that can happen is the ammunition will not stay in the magazine. Second worst thing is the gun will work, but with difficulty. Considering a single Savage magazine for one of these pistols will cost nearly a third of an entire pistol, I suggest a bit of experimentation is probably worth the effort. And if it just won’t work at all, see about trading it (the magazine) to another Savage owner.

Hubby and I just inherited a fairly well maintained 1907 Savage.32 and are restoring it to its original glory. Only hitch is the spring for the magazine.

We had one crafted to match the width, but we are unsure of the length the magazine spring should be. We have the original owner’s manual for it, and it doesn’t have any kind of detailed measurements for it either. Hoping you could tell us how long your magazine spring is for yours, if you wouldn’t mind. Help a fellow lover of this particular weapon out? First, allow me to say I had NO idea this one essay would generate so much discussion.

It is amazing! Okay; yes, I will be happy to do so. However, I cannot figure out how to disassemble the magazine to see the spring.

However, from the left side – with the cut outs showing the spring, sort of – I count six coils from the bottom of the magazine to the follower. So I suggest starting with seven coils and trimming back until the magazine can be loaded with nine cartridges. You might also tell me how the magazine comes apart. I’m sure it’s fairly simple if one knows the secret handshake.

(I feel so silly.) Good luck. Allow me to caution you: Re-newing the bluing will detract from the collector’s value. If it’s pretty nasty and needs rebuilding or renewing, you probably won’t loose much.

But other than cleaning it well, ‘fixing’ the blue will not help the value any. Casz’s “Old Man” here;oP There should be a hole in the bottom of the magazine base plate. Insert a punch or phillips screwdriver into the hole and slide the base plate to the side. There are a couple of little bumps on the inside of the base plate that hold it in place when assembled.

If you pull downwards a bit they should clear the side of the magazine, but be GENTLE! That little plate of metal is thin and soft, and you do not want to go looking for replacements! On mine, it looks like it’s made to slide to one side easier than the other, so take a look at the crimps at the front side of the magazine, see if you can detect which side it’s flared toward. Thanks for all your help and advice on this pistol – it’s a great piece, and I hope that this will be the last hurdle to getting it range-ready.